Your deck photo looks like the floor of my boat. 450 Bushmaster vs 458 SOCOM vs 50 Beowulf: Battle Of The Big Bore AR .50 Beowulf AR-15: A Home Defense Option? | An Official Journal Of The NRA It is most a Gee Wiz cool kid toy. In contrast, the 450 Bushmaster was developed using the 284 Winchester as a parent case and has the longest case length at 1.70. Customer service sucks. Needless to say I got tired of ducking. The icing on the cake is Alexander Arms contention that its complete Beowulf Overmatch upper assembly will mate perfectly and shoot properly on all the milspec 5.56 lowers that you might have laying around in your garage or closet, and that you wont need to modify a damn thing, including the seemingly wimpy 5.56 recoil buffer. However, even without a long period of familiarity and appropriate magnification, Im reasonably certain that the Beowulf carbine would manage 2 MOA all day long. For hunting deer sized game I'd rather use a 223 with a good bullet. For the 458 SOCOM, less expensive factory loads from Underwood Ammo can be had for around $2/round while bear hunting hard cast loads from Buffalo Bore run upwards of $5/round. I have bad knees and do not like having to track wounded deer. I agree with 2 MOA, which is roughly what mine shoots, but mine wears Troy back up iron sights. The numbers for 300 grain .50 Beowulf are almost 1900 fps at the muzzle and 1400 fps at 100 yards, bringing a load of about 2300 and 1400 lb.-ft., respectively. Practical Applications 300 Blackout was designed as a combat cartridge, but it also has found a role in home defense and hunting. http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2013/12/16/wtf-firearm-cannon/, Look up .950 JDJ. Only a liberal would call it a (clip). . Add your M-LOK handguard, KeyMod front end, or other rifle accessories as you deem fit. Owning a .50 Beowulf carbine does not require a life-altering commitment of working capital. AWC makes their Thundertrap suppressor in 50 Beowulf as well. An AR by any other name will cause PSH in the faint of heart and rationality. Sectional density (SD) is a way to evaluate the penetration ability of a bullet based on its external dimensions, design, and weight. Adapting new calibers to the AR-15 rifle is nothing new, and cartridges like the 300 Blackout, 224 Valkyrie, 6.8 SPC, and 6.5 Grendel have all been moderately successful. Mostly later. The areas I hunt require either a shotgun or a rifle, and semi-auto rifles are not permitted in either jurisdiction (PA and Sweden). Both very capable at 150-200yds. run off AR-10 platforms. Already have a 12.5 inch barreled 308 but the 300 blackout keeps sticking in my head. All of the major bullet manufacturers like Barnes, Hornady, Nosler, Sierra, and Federal have multiple bullet options available for all three calibers. Thats also why AAs Grendel and Beowulf barrels/bolts arent compatible with other Grendel and 12.742 (Beowulf w/o the copyright) barrels/bolts. I personally have a couple of these modular systems that include .22, 9 mm, .223, 7.62 x 39, .450 Bushmaster thumper, and a .50 Beowulf. The .50 Beowulf load features a 200-grain ARX bullet that leaves the muzzle at 2,500 feet per second, yielding 2,776 foot-pounds of kinetic energy. We often hear about the average self-defense scenario, but the truth is every encounter is unique. What am I missing? Although their case length is different, the 450 Bushmaster and 458 SOCOM have the same maximum overall length of 2.26" as this is the longest cartridge length that can be used in an AR-15 receiver. This and throw the BO at the bear to distract him while you dump him. I have never been able to shoot more than 4 rounds in a row with out the gun jamming. Magnification would have aided our shooting; well, it certainly would have aided mine. I replied it had been sent two days earlier and quickly got a second email saying it had been received but misplaced. At a glance, it looks like every other EBR on the range, but after the first shot, a crowd begins to gather. While the projectile weights are in the same ballpark, the .50 Beowulf is going to deliver longer range and better accuracy. Have both. I should have referenced the Stoner AR platform and not the AR-15 specifically. Given the corpulent nature of the round, a full-sized magazine will hold 10 cartridges.What's the .50 Beowulf Good For?Given the big, fat bullets and higher side of moderate velocity, its a great overall short-to-medium-range cartridge for all sorts of stuff.On the hunting front, especially considering its bullet variety, itll handle pretty much anything north of the equator between Hawaii and Ireland. But I do love my big bores , tough choice I had to indulge in all . Why a .50 Beowulf? And wait. 450 Bushmaster vs 30 06: Heavy Recoil Hunting Cartridges Collide One thing that I dont like is the .50 Beowulf barrel comes unthreaded (bull barrel), so if you want to install a muzzle break, you are going to have to have it threaded. The NSA is in the room and they blab everything to the keepers of the NICS. Will do some research on that to see if it will work for me. Been leaning towards the 300 since I have 2 308's so I can share bullets. Although there are minor differences between these three rounds, all of them have similar performance out to 150 yards. Like muzzle velocity, the 30-06 was more efficient at conserving kinetic energy at range than the 450 Bushmaster. In the chart below, we will compare muzzle velocity, kinetic energy, and bullet drop for each cartridge assuming a 100 yard zero. I cant lie an AR with a .50 Beowulf complete upper, huge muzzle brake, optics, quad-rails, bipod, grenade launcher and other bells and whistles is more clumsy than a traditional AR carbine. The 450 Bushmaster (or 450 BM) was developed by Tim LeGendre of LeMAG Firearm. It obviously retains more velocity down range because it has a smaller cross section than .50 caliber bullets. I didnt speak to Bill Alexander, but Dave did throughout his ordering process. It's very reassuring to carry in areas full of Grizzlys and wolves when elk hunting. Perhaps the biggest difference between these three cartridges is their case design itself. But there is a charm to a .45-70 in a big, honkin lever action (yeah, I know old school). I have a .45-70 Marlin XLR and the .50 Beowulf. This a great article but its th3 quality of the comments that boosts its awesomeness by a factor of 10. Get a little lackadaisical and your shoulder will quickly advise you that your technique could stand some improvement. Our buddy Dave describes the .50 slug, especially the HP, as a flying ashtray. In fact, outside of the first 100-yards, the differences are effective entirely negligible. Although it fires a lighter bullet, the 458 SOCOM has a maximum effective range of around 250 yards on large game while the less efficient bullet design of the Beowulf limits its effective range to 150 yards. The extra weight up front made my sight picture a little wobbly when shooting offhand, but also helped to keep the muzzle down, where it belonged, during firing. Half the fun of old cars is the manual transmission. In Michigan the only way I can have a loaded gun in my truck is if its a pistol with my cpl. Danish King Hrothgars beer hall was under attack by a demonic monster. While felt recoil depends on a lot of factors like the recoil impulse velocity and time curve, one way to objectively compare recoil is to look at the raw recoil energy figures. I have no proof of that, just what I read so it might be wrong., Anywho, doesnt change the point I was getting tothe why not use the biggest, meanest, most powerful hammer in the toolbox?, Also, in full disclosure, I am a Beowulf fan girl, I love them. M1 Garand vs. AR-15: Which is America's Rifle? http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v257/knitepoet/Hunting/bullet2.jpg. Its not new Ive owned my AA 50 wulf upper for 7 years or so. Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited. In fact, at first glance the Beowulf looks like any other AR-15, save for a heavy barrel that looks like it was borrowed from a shotgun and a shoebox size tank-style muzzle brake pinned (in Massachusetts) to the muzzle. However, the 450 Bushmaster has a flatter trajectory as it fires lighter bullets at higher muzzle velocities. I have the idea for a second 6.5 Grendel in my head and I will definitely be going to Alexander Arms to get it. This upper and round look perfect for taking down some white tails and getting more use out of my AR than plinking or just in case shtf. The camera shake is the result of Dave standing too close to, and in perfect alignment with, the backwash from the muzzle brake. But, Sir Isaac Newtown giveth as much as he taketh away. The .50 Beowulf is interchangeable with AR-15 lowers and uses box mags. The game wont notice the difference between a 14in. It is also the most important factor when computing kinetic energy. And thus, we have it. just checked, depending on the bullet the .50 beowulf muzzle energy tops out at just above 3,000 ft lbs, so I should good. Unless you hunt buffalo on a regular basis, what good is the .50 Beowulf? On the plus side, it is a high quality stainless steel barrel. Developed by Alexander Arms, not much is known about the genesis of the 50 Beowulf as Bill Alexander is known for keeping company matters a closely guarded secret. I appreciate your appreciation . I use the plated rainier 330grn bullets most the time in the Beowulf, they are around $0.20 a piece. Not a little .45 or .458its a real FIVE OH! A .308 Winchester ranges from 11 to 18 with most loads in the 15 and 16 foot-pound range. My entry upper will put every round into a cloverleaf (granted its a BIG cloverleaf) at 100 off the bench all day long. in this video we compare the 308 winchester. I would also guess that .45-70 Government factory ammunition is less expensive than .50 Beowulf as well. I would rather shoot the lever gun and feel more connected to the experience. 12 pistol upper w/ pepper pot brake $921.99 from Midwayusa. Thanks for taking those trips for us. All three of these rounds fit the bill in terms of integrating into the AR-15 platform and being larger than 44-caliber, but how do they stack up in terms of ballistics? 50bmg and 50 beowulf have very little in common when it comes to "booms", which I'm sure you know.. I bought one of Mr. Alexanders early .50 Beowulfs, and Im here to tell you, theyre a ton of fun. If you have either, your opinions will be helpful. Overall, if you want one gun that will break down into an extremely modest space that you can carry around unnoticed and has multi-caliber capability, this is the gun for you. At any rate, back to my original question, if it is possible to use .45-70 Government cartridges in the AR-15 platform, I would be supremely interested such a configuration. I use a Leupold 14 shotgun scope and its plenty of magnification. . On the other hand, the 458 SOCOM offers similar ballistic performance to the 450 Bushmaster with heavier bullets. I havent had a chance to shoot at 200 yards yet but it performed great at 100 and 150. Then a week later I got an automated message saying essentially: 1. your order may have been cancelled because you specifically requested in writing that it be cancelled, 2. your order may be partially fulfilled, 3. your order has been manually entered, 4. The .243, 7mm-08, etc. In terms of penetration, the Beowulf and SOCOM are essentially tied at 0.2 and 0.204, respectively, with the Bushmaster coming in last at 0.175. Just ordered mine! I love my AA 50 Beowulf overmatch rifle! AR-15 & AR-10 Calibers Comparisons | Read Now - Bear Creek Arsenal Another major difference between all three cartridges is the type of bullet each fire. The 450 Bushmaster and 50 Beowulf are excellent deer hunting options in states that require the use of straight-walled cartridges. 450 Bushmaster vs 458 SOCOM vs 50 Beowulf: Big Bore AR Cartridges Anything .308 / 7.62 x 51 based will not fit into an AR-15 mag well. The opposite is true, though. The Ranier 335gr HPs make FINE whitetail medicine. I took a buffalo with it, and have reduced numerous metal plate targets and bowling pins to scrap. I ordered some on the 21st and recived them on the 25th. Moose? Hunters who use full caliber bullets in their .50 caliber muzzleloaders can attest to that. This is a beautiful piece of crap. Simply grab the complete lower and optics that you already have, order your choice of Beowulf uppers, and wait. That's a tough choice. I have a few blackouts , a 458 socom and a 50 beowulf . We know, because we used traditional double-stack 5.56 mags, including PMags and C-Products metal mags, and they all functioned perfectly as single-stack .50 Beowulf mags. You dont absolutely need a fully rifled barrel, but do need at least a 4 rifled choke. All three rounds have a rebated rim design, meaning their rim is narrower than their . I want to party with the stupid part of your brain. *Must have a registered ARFCOM account to win. Bottom line: Beowulf is an epic, but dead, folk hero with valid monster-slaying certificate of participation. It duplicates .45-70 performance from a modern platform that can morph into a 5.56 in less than ten seconds and (when separated from the lower) fits inside my backpack. But still impressive. (Since 2007) And 600 rounds neat engine block gun not a long distance hitter. (Emphasis on OH yeahhhhh). Power always comes at a price, and Im not just talking about the initial cost of the upper. For example, at the low end, the 300-grain bullet leaves a 24-inch barrel at 1,870 feet per second and packs muzzle energy of 2,330 foot-pounds. 300 Blackout vs 7.62x39: Everything You Need To Know The .45-70 is too long to fit into the mag well of an AR-15. We shot hollow points, but you can have your .50s with brass or lead solids or FMJ if you prefer. The fun factor alone merits four stars. Feeding this beast is very doable. If you want to have multiple rounds ready to go, they have to be roughly the same length as the 5.56 to fit through the hole in the bottom. While were wishing, make mine belt-fed with HE rounds. Have a new Spikes Pirate lower I am building waiting for it! As for factory ammunition, you can find a few different options like these.InceptorAmmunition offers a load using its ARX projectile. 458 SOCOM vs 300 Blackout Cartridge Comparison by Ammo.com Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more. Ha! The whole process takes a few minutes and is extremely easy to do. Maybe for me, but not for you. He changed the bolt dimension/head space to leave a little more metal in the lug area which means they wont head space properly when mixed (AA bolt, other bbl or AA bbl and other 7.6239 bolt). Thats reasonable to me, but to you maybe not. But if I could only own one or the other, I would have to choose the .50 Beowulf. Got lucky at a gunshop 2 years ago and picked up my Beowulf on a S&W MP-15 lower plus 60 rounds of ammo, soft case , bipod for $700.00. Lehigh Defense Load Data Library | Lehigh Bullets Reloading Both very capable at 150-200yds. It should be noted that none of these cartridges would be described as having low recoil. I actually had to stop because I was knocking the big steel plates over at 100 yards and I didnt want to get in trouble lol. For the 458, the most common options available are AR-15 rifles from manufacturers like Tromix, Wilson Combat, and Bear Creek Arsenal (BCA). I bet you also think a bullet button makes an AR full auto lol. 450 Bushmaster vs. 308: Which is Better for You? - Bear Creek Arsenal 50 Beowulf or 300 Blackout - AR15.COM Gun Review: Springfield Armory Ronin EMP 3 9mm 1911, Gun Review: Henry U.S. Lots of brush, big tough animals (game is to respectful for those vermin), and the need to not any get away if avoidable. In contrast, the 458 SOCOM fires a 0.458 diameter bullet which is much more common as this bullet diameter is used by rounds such as the .45-70 Government, 458 Winchester Magnum, 450 Marlin, 460 Weatherby, and 458 Lott. I have used different lowers with the same result. I got mine when they first came out. 300 Blackout vs 308 Win - Caliber Comparison by Ammo.com The 3.91" bottleneck case is rimless with a base of 0.804". Its not really a measurement of error, so much as an estimation of destruction. That upper costs $1,012 plus the cost of upgrades. When evaluating centerfire rifle cartridges, its a good idea to analyze the cartridge specs to gain more knowledge of each. Thats also about the distance where kinetic energy drops below 1,000 foot-pounds.What does all that mean? The rush of hot gases is powerful enough to blow your hair back as effectively, but perhaps not as pleasantly, as a Trojan brand personal joy buzzer. So it comes down to this one question: is the pure fun of shooting this beast worth the waiting time and money? Take a moment to recall the 3,182 lines of alliterative verse poetry written in unintelligible Old English. I could go into details on all these, but by the time it was done, I went with..5.56. This however has been on it for quite some time. A 30 round 5.56 magazine might be a ticket to prison in AWB states even though it only holds 10 rounds of .50 Beowulf. If a related requirement calls for going into vehicle interiors without using the handles meaning right through the doors or body, the same benefits apply. Selecting the right thumper round for your needs primarily revolves around your local hunting regulations, the type of game you want to hunt, and the ranges you expect to shoot at. You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers. I want to take classes taught be the stupid part of his brain. Sure, the upper kit makes it muzzle heavy, but that doesnt make it too clumsy to handle. While the bolt carrier, firing pin and little bits seem familiar, the bolt face is sized for the 7.6339, which has a larger rim than the 5.56. best article Ive ever read. Anyway, a Scandinavian badass, Beowulf, comes along to kick the monster's butt, successfully I might add. 50 beowulf or 6.5 grendel - Rifles - New Jersey Gun Forums Like a good facelift, theres a visible but not a dramatic difference. Lastly, the 450 Bushmaster fires 0.452 diameter bullets ranging between 158-300 grains while the 250 and 260 grain bullets are the most popular factory loads. I do have one gripe on the Beowulfs appropriate game list. Michigan just changed the law allowing me to use this for deer in my zone. I have the basic Entry model and its listed @ only 4.5pounds w/o optic. Pistol Buffer 5.0-8.5 oz. Compared: 6.5 Grendel, 6.8 SPC, .300 Blackout and .350 Legend All our loading data is intended solely for use in modern firearms. 300 Blackout Suppressed and 50 Beowulf Schmucks With Guns 16 subscribers Subscribe 1.9K views 5 years ago A Day at the range testing a 300 Blackout with a new GSL suppressor. Think again. This high muzzle velocity gives the 450 Bushmaster a flatter trajectory out to 250 yards, although the 458 SOCOM is a very close second in terms of bullet drop. 12 gauge slugs are more common but I will go with the 50 BEO because its semi-auto, mag fed, & can be reloaded cheaply, I use the same powder as I use for loading my .410 shotgunHodgen lil gun, just my 2 centsand thanks for the rantlol, Myself I just love guns and sometimes buy things I have no business in. Once again we see that the .450 Bushmaster load outperforms all the others in terms of wind drift and the .50 Beowulf comes in last. The ejection port is larger, of course, and theres a forward assist. 86# doe, shot in the left shoulder, the lump you see is the bullet under the hide on the off side. The 50 Beowulf lists its maximum overall length as 2.25. Monday I got an email saying I had to send paperwork from a dealer. The ammo I use is right froqm Alexander . An entry-level Alexander Arms .50 Beowulf upper will set you back $759. My 300BLK suppressed sbr is a bit more than just a "fun gun" for me. The 50 Beowulf also has higher recoil. I can see it now on my shopping list 1 box of Hornady Pink Mist Beowulf. Therefore, short and thick bullets have to be used instead of more aerodynamic designs. I have a .223 AR which I enjoy and am proficient with. Well, due to of the short supply of elk at the rifle range and the prevalence of small block engines in the parking lot, we couldnt put the .50 to the ultimate of tests by killing big game and Chevys. I didnt want it, but it shows sloppy management that the invoice says it was in the shipment. You wont melt your MasterCard or have to raid the kiddies college funds. some times I like to take my 300 blackout loaded with subs and do some stalking for deer it is great for 50-75 yd shots , other times I just like to go nuclear and take my wulf or socom and hammer what ever I shoot . I have used different lowers with the same result. If they do what mold sizing deis etc and of course powder type and weight the bottom line is the blackout will kill deer and hogs and the 50 beowulf will kill deer, hogs and anything else on the morth american continent . Will have to think about it awhile and do some research on costs of each caliber. If you want to win trivia bar bets, the monster that Beowulf killed was known as Grendel. At that point, you are blurring the line between rifle and portable cannon. But get both eventually. Thought a Beretta shotgun was out of your budget? Of the 3 deer Ive killed with mine, the furthest any have made it was one jump. The perfect niche for such a weapon that otherwise seems unnecessary, but fills a specific role most dont consider better than most other rifles can. In fact, to plan my most recent build which is intended as a hunting rifle, I weighed the pros and cons of 300, 6.8, 6.5G, 277 Wolverine, 25-45 Sharps, 50 Beowulf, 7.62x39, and stepping up to an AR-10 in 308 for a deer and hog rifle. woman shooting it offhand. The cartridge is just short enough to fit in a standard AR magazine, although for obvious reasons (it's fat) it wont double stack like .223 Rem./5.56 NATO cartridges. by Mike Hardesty Posted in: Caliber Comparisons 5 comments Read More 1 of 3 A standard .50 BMG cartridge fires a full metal jacket (FMJ) bullet weighing 647 grain, nearly double some of the 50 Beowulf bullets. .300 AAC Blackout for Deer? | An Official Journal Of The NRA This kind of impact crater, from a round that can be fired from just about any 5.56 magazine, is pretty cool. Unlike Mike Schulte, Ive never had any issues with mine. Since the bullet is .50 caliber, you can easily find projectiles if you choose to reload, and Alexander Arms and others publish tested reloading data. I don't own, but I have shot a 300 blackout. 300 AAC Blackout 30-30 Winchester 30-06 Springfield 308 Winchester 50 Beowulf 5.45x39 7mm Remington Magnum 7mm-08 Remington 7.62x39 7.62x54R . Welcome to the Big Bore AR family - meet the new .50 Beowulf Sure there are the other two members of the big three but only the Beowulf actually matches the ballistics of the .45-70 and if you have a job that needs a big hammer, why not use the biggest, meanest, most powerful hammer in the toolbox?, What I meant to say was from what Ive read the .50 Beowulf is actually the only one of the big 3 that matches the ballistics of the venerable .45-70, while the others come close. Configuration tested: Stag Arms tactical lower receiver, Midwest Industries quad rail handguard, Alexander Arms tank muzzle device, Eotech sight, Materials: 7075-T651 forged upper; ASTM 9310 equivalent, surface refined, case hardened, peened and phosphated bolt; CrMoV phosphated barrel; Internally honed and hard chromed, M16 type carrier, Gas system: Mid length 316 stainless, hard drawn. Typically, longer and heavier bullets will have a higher BC as they can resist wind drift more efficiently. Littered with spent .22 casings. The T shirt didnt arrive. The 300 BLK is no slouch when it comes to bullet diameter at 0.308", but the 458 is simply bigger. We tried to dig some expanded bullets out of the berm for photographs, but we didnt have a steam shovel. The same ammo from Midway will be even cheaper when its in stock. It is always unburnt powder in the chamber that is the problem. You have entered an incorrect email address! What does that mean in the real world? Everyone overlooked the fact that you can have a 50 Beowulf PISTOL! On an episode of some weapons show on the Military Channel, Mr. Alexander described the Beowulf as, a wrecking ball I wholeheartedly agree. Its old school and new school. . For 450 and 458, elk can be taken safely within 150 yards while whitetail can be ethically harvested at 250 yards. I currently have a 300BO bolt gun. Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. Hunting hogs in the Southeast US. Although the 50 fires the largest caliber bullet of the three, its inefficient bullet design hemorrhages velocity and kinetic energy down range and has gone completely subsonic at 200 yards. CR42 Hunting 7.5K subscribers Subscribe 1.1K Share 50K views 1 year ago 308 vs 50 Beowulf - penetration test. Most 12-gauge 2 3/4-inch shells will generate recoil energy in the mid-20s depending on the ammo, so that gives you a decent comparison. Big game hunters and passionate reloaders will award it five. To get us all on the same page, heres the social-media-friendly, condensed version of the story. Id like to deer hunt with an AR but Ive seen deer shot but not killed with a .223 (I know, shot placement, but nobodys perfect.). Most .50 Beowulf ammo you'll come across falls in the 300-400 grain range, and even at the very low end you're still looking at a muzzle velocity of nearly 1900 fps, which translates into 2,300 foot-pounds of energy. The ammo I use is right froqm Alexander . Each of these rounds are limited in their design capabilities due to the restrictions of the AR-15 platform. A 438-grain slug leaving the barrel at 1,610 feet per second carries 2,520 foot-pounds of muzzle energy. In terms of rifle availability, there are considerably more options for the 450 Bushmaster compared to the 458 SOCOM and 50 Beowulf. Now sure, that is 320ish more foot-pounds. Its a great gun and the accuracy was excellent. I see some B.S. Designed for shots within 250 yards or less (<150 yards for the Beowulf), these three rounds deliver crippling kinetic energy that can transform any AR-15 into a capable hog and deer hunting rifle. Being ,self indulgent, I have both. By the time your new upper arrives, youre going to be as excited as the time you had your first blind date with your first sure thing. Good point. Standard mags should work.